Raid Loot Rules

TIggerstYle · Post by **TIggerstYle** » January 9th, 2007, 9:30 am

Just throwing this out there guys but i really think we need to enforce some sort of " Guildies first" idea like most of the other raiding guilds. I'm kinda getting sick of all these epics going to PUGS and watching our members struggle another week with lesser gear. Anyone have any suggestions?

ilure · Post by **ilure** » January 9th, 2007, 9:42 am

lol. why dont we make the pugs pay us for the run as well.No one would come to the run if it wasnt an open roll type of deal. The mq arrangement, which i think was fucked up in retrospect, was under the pretense of a guild run full of geared mains. The better geared ppl would have allowed a faster or in the case of aq20, a successful encounter/full clear. Also the mains would most likely pass the gear since they had much better crap. For the most part this worked out, but honestly after what happened to Tim in an mq aq20, i think that policy was stupid. (fwiw that policy was more of tom and i setting it up, to get the mq ppl to come and allow the out of guild ppl in the raid.)That said, as soon as a pug is in the instance, it more or less has to be open rolls. Any loot restriction would severely hamper our ability to recruit ppl to the raid and fuck us as far as reputation on the svr.The only way to get around this is to have no pugs in raid. IE recruit more ppl to the guild and or ensure that ALL guildies show up for raids.

OldGeezer · Post by **OldGeezer** » January 9th, 2007, 9:57 am

My 2 cents on the subject....

To run a raid of any kind every wow player has to invest time into the effort. A PUG's time is worth the same as any guildies time. Therefore, any reward or potential for reward must be equal across both sets of people. It is for this reason I have refused to run a raid which has a DKP system or a tiered/ skewd loot system. FA is gaining server "rep" as it were and from all indications, it seems to be very favorable. I do not want to get a reputation like MQ has as loot whores as this would hurt our image and thus damage our chances of getting the occasional pug when the need arises.

K is correct. The answer is to recruit the right people thus removing the need to call upon PUGs for assistance. It was for this reason we elected to alter the name of the guild. We're almost there folks, I get tells daily asking about the guild and people saying ther are starting the process of divesting themselves from their current situation to join us. Lets all allow the process to continue.

That said, tig, I do understand your frustration of the loot going to pugs. In fact, I share it. Thats ok though, someday those pugs might be FA members... and those pugs will be telling the folks about an awesome group of folks they just cleared ZG with.

Hardwigg · Post by **Hardwigg** » January 9th, 2007, 10:23 am

I agree with K and Tim in that setting up some sort of over-arching loot restriction for pugs would diminish our chances of ever getting anyone to go with us. When you can't level up anymore, the reason you're running an instance is to get better gear.However, I do believe there are specific items we can set loot restrictions for: Primal Hakkari Idol, Heart of Hakkar, Eye of Ossirian, Head of Onyxia. We could contemplating restricting Bijous and Idols as well, but that might be too much.

ilure · Post by **ilure** » January 9th, 2007, 10:47 am

/cry We'll miss you guys

OldGeezer · Post by **OldGeezer** » January 9th, 2007, 11:32 am

This is a huge loss to the guild... you will be sorely missed. But we do understand that family comes first and maybe... just maybe, we'll see you after a while?

Krikor · Post by **Krikor** » January 9th, 2007, 1:28 pm

Sorry to see you leave we will miss you in future runs and like Oldgeezer said maybe in the future we might see you again. Take care of yourselves.

TIggerstYle · Post by **TIggerstYle** » January 9th, 2007, 3:10 pm

Take care both of you

Jon · Post by **Jon** » January 9th, 2007, 3:11 pm

Sorry to see both of you go, but definitely understand the life balance when playing this game. We'll let you know if a game publisher figures out how to make a MMO that isn't so time consuming!

TIggerstYle · Post by **TIggerstYle** » January 9th, 2007, 3:26 pm

OK good points, but i know MQ isnt the only guild to do so yet they can find pugs still willing to run? What about limiting PUGS to 1 epic per run, its not saying they cant get any loot they just cant be loot whores. No limits on Blues or greens but gives Guildies a better shot at the epics if a pug already has 1 in the run.

ilure · Post by **ilure** » January 9th, 2007, 3:58 pm

1st of all, most guilds will allow open rolls on loots if there are any pugs around. All MQ runs are open rolls now on 20 mans. We put in those rules for those runs because a few of the mq ppl didnt want to run with pugs at all. Was only way to get them to come. Most of those ppl dont play anymore ironically.For a "guild sponsored" runs ive been in, (outside of mq), they do things like collecting all cores, scarabs, coins etc for the guild bank and still having open rolls on loots.I thought we have a 1 epic per run policy no? I think this is perfectly reasonable if we dont enforce it already.The only downside being, idiots get their purple and immediately log.

OldGeezer · Post by **OldGeezer** » January 9th, 2007, 4:11 pm

Agreed. The policy IS one epic per run... except in the case where it epic item will end up being DE'd and some lucky player that already won one can use it.

Tim

Gathgor · Post by **Gathgor** » January 9th, 2007, 8:02 pm

I suspect that the policy will cause people to get their purple and run. However, last night we were losing people left and right and were able to replace them with other PUG people. An interesting thing happened last night that we could do and not advertise. We were rolling on the Primal Hakkari Armsplint which dropped twice. I lost on both rolls. However, on the second Captdread who beat me then deferred his roll to me so that the armsplint would stay "in guild." We could have an unwritten code that when class specific gear drops that all guildies of that class roll, even if they have it (as long as the PUGs do not know they have it). So when one of us wins it, the lootmaster can give it to the member with the highest roll, who doesn't have it AND who is a guildie.

Mahnalor · Post by **Mahnalor** » January 9th, 2007, 8:59 pm

Farewell to both of you. Thanks for all of the memories.

If ever you two need anything, all you have to do is ask. You two will be sorely missed...

Mahnalor · Post by **Mahnalor** » January 9th, 2007, 9:19 pm

Great ideas guys. Please keep 'em coming. I think we should all have a say on what transpires within the guild. My take: unless we have a full guild run, then we really cannot limit the rolls. We should, however, have dibs on items such Heart of Hakkar and Idols, etc... if the run is mostly guild members. Hard to say what that limit would be. I am sure that PUG's would not have a problem with turning the Heart over to the guild if we are straight forward from the begining.

TIggerstYle · Post by **TIggerstYle** » January 10th, 2007, 8:55 am

Actually K what we have been doing the last couple of runs is a limit of 2 Epics, 1 set piece and 1 other. But that could have changed now. I like the idea of all guildies rolling even if they dont need, but as most of us arent epiced out we will for the most part be wearing said items. But yes if you have the item and arent wearing it then i agree , roll on it and pass to a guildy.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » January 11th, 2007, 3:08 pm

I think we should make a distinction between guild runs and non-guild runs: Non-guild runs: 1 epic per run. Roll by class. Pass if it makes sense. Keep hybrids in mind. For example, if a non-guildie Pally wants to roll on a Band of Servitude, no big deal. But as a druid I may usually pass in a guild run to a lock or mage, but I wouldn't want to pass on a roll where it would also be useful to me and there would be a better chance of it leaving the guild. This does not mean a War should roll =) Guild runs: Keep it flexible, roll where it makes sense and have fun. For example, if I (Myrdinn) got the epic ZG bracers on the first boss and then saw a drop I really wanted off Jindo I'd be glad if I was still able to roll. All epics are not created equal and I think the rest of the raid would be less fun thinking that I could get the ultimate Druid drop later and feel like I should pass because I got those bracers in the beginning. I'm sure with 40-mans you don't have this luxury of informality, but I think our guild could pull it off.