) -- and I watched that thing tick a good 8 out of 10 seconds on me. Sometimes it was pulled off quickly, sometimes it ticked the full 10 seconds. This is one of the boss's major moves as it decreases our chance to hit by 50% or some amazingly bad amount. No hit = no threat = he kills you because you didn't stop DPSing to decurse. Midnight also has a knockdown which stuns for 3 seconds, the combination of those two means Midnight bites your face. Your JOB as a decurser is to decurse, and secondarily to DPS in this fight. That means cancel the current cast and get it off me and the OT immediately, then the rest of the raid. Your penis size will remain the same regardless of the damage meters. In fact, this is one of the primary reasons my horde raid guild banned them -- you have a role in a fight, know it - do it - collect loot. As an aside, there's a difference between smart DPS and stupid DPS. Stupid DPS doesn't stop when the tank loses aggro. Stupid DPS front loads with high damage and doesn't pad for the inevitable crit. Stupid DPS pays attention to their numbers in comparison to other DPS rather than tank threat. Smart DPS puts out consistant damage and rides just below threat enough that a crit will not exceed threat. Aggro dump if you have any questions .. dont rely on KTM telling you, it can and will fail. Moroes: I think having 3 priests was actually somewhat of a detriment based on Moroes's skills combined with Amulec's spec. In not having "Defiance" (+15% threat in defensive stance), there really isn't a reason to even be in defensive stance excepting when he's gouged me. Threat was a big problem since after the first mob went down, and the raid started to DPS him - we didn't have that long of a time for Amulec to threat up -- when I was gouged, he ate someone. Blave also ate hot fiery death early on. In hindsight, I'm thinking that if we have another tanking type -- it might be best to "bear up" and tank those off mobs instead of kiting, kiting was impossible anyways since we didnt have slowing effects on them (no rogues crippling, or frost mages) so it was easy for them to keep whomping.. Opera -- Romulo/Julianne: Group makeup was pretty key to the failures here. We only had two people (warriors) who could interrupt Julianne's Eternal Affection(heal) .. we tried with Amulec being the only interrupt, but one heal makes a significant difference in the fight. Honestly I'm a terrible person to put in charge of the interrupts -- if I'm saving my global cooldown / rage, I'm not threatting -- and if she runs loose, I have nothing to bring her back but melee damage rage. Casters are a pain to control as is -- and doubly so when they target people at random with their damage spells, if they're not punching me in the face, I'm not getting the rage to bump threat. We tried switching it so that Blave was tanking Romulo, but Romulo was running loose to the raid despite an initial mangle. We also had terrible luck with a last fraction of a second where Romulo rezzed Julianne. Having a ton of leftover rage from Romulo initially, I was able to control him and have Blave pull him from me. That seemed to work pretty well -- but again, it was really just another learning experience adapting to a radically different group makeup. Julianne also targets people at random to cast Blinding Passion -- 6k holy damage DOT. If you get hit with that -- dont sit there for 30 seconds without bandaging and wonder why the next one kills you. Especially when we only have 2 dedicated healers. Raid Report 9/11 - ...
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
We struggled with every single fight. I'm not going to piss and moan about it, but still offer my constructive criticisms on how it could be better. Buckle up though, this raid was chock full of fail and I'm not going to dance around certain issues. This doesn't mean I dont love you -- I love you all, but we had a few things that could really use some attention paid to. Two things I think sum it up. Our group has been formed around the synergy of having 3 healers, although everything might be doable with two - it's going to involve a re-learning / adjustment for each of the fights. Secondly, and somewhat combined with that -- when we talked about subbing folks in - we mentioned "maybe 2" would be doable. In this case, only Amulec/Chuunks/Quani/Killean were on their main spec -- Dudepal was shadow, Zuklen was an alt and shadow, Onestar was new to the raid group, Blave was new to the raid group, Blastine is a part-timer, Phrikk is an alt. If either one of those two things had been kept constant, I think we would have easily one shot each of the bosses. The combination killed, the "main raid group" wasn't there to adjust to the major change of having only two healers. Here's my take on what happened in the specific boss fights: Attumen: Attumen try #1 -- Amulec got a severe string of crushing blows. One *might* have been pushed off, but I really chalk it up to bad luck. 4 crushing blows in the span of 4 seconds is rough in a 2-healer situation. In general. DECURSE ME. We had three decursers (counting Blave, although it's not really possible when feral - just trying to drive the point home ) -- and I watched that thing tick a good 8 out of 10 seconds on me. Sometimes it was pulled off quickly, sometimes it ticked the full 10 seconds. This is one of the boss's major moves as it decreases our chance to hit by 50% or some amazingly bad amount. No hit = no threat = he kills you because you didn't stop DPSing to decurse. Midnight also has a knockdown which stuns for 3 seconds, the combination of those two means Midnight bites your face. Your JOB as a decurser is to decurse, and secondarily to DPS in this fight. That means cancel the current cast and get it off me and the OT immediately, then the rest of the raid. Your penis size will remain the same regardless of the damage meters. In fact, this is one of the primary reasons my horde raid guild banned them -- you have a role in a fight, know it - do it - collect loot. As an aside, there's a difference between smart DPS and stupid DPS. Stupid DPS doesn't stop when the tank loses aggro. Stupid DPS front loads with high damage and doesn't pad for the inevitable crit. Stupid DPS pays attention to their numbers in comparison to other DPS rather than tank threat. Smart DPS puts out consistant damage and rides just below threat enough that a crit will not exceed threat. Aggro dump if you have any questions .. dont rely on KTM telling you, it can and will fail. Moroes: I think having 3 priests was actually somewhat of a detriment based on Moroes's skills combined with Amulec's spec. In not having "Defiance" (+15% threat in defensive stance), there really isn't a reason to even be in defensive stance excepting when he's gouged me. Threat was a big problem since after the first mob went down, and the raid started to DPS him - we didn't have that long of a time for Amulec to threat up -- when I was gouged, he ate someone. Blave also ate hot fiery death early on. In hindsight, I'm thinking that if we have another tanking type -- it might be best to "bear up" and tank those off mobs instead of kiting, kiting was impossible anyways since we didnt have slowing effects on them (no rogues crippling, or frost mages) so it was easy for them to keep whomping.. Opera -- Romulo/Julianne: Group makeup was pretty key to the failures here. We only had two people (warriors) who could interrupt Julianne's Eternal Affection(heal) .. we tried with Amulec being the only interrupt, but one heal makes a significant difference in the fight. Honestly I'm a terrible person to put in charge of the interrupts -- if I'm saving my global cooldown / rage, I'm not threatting -- and if she runs loose, I have nothing to bring her back but melee damage rage. Casters are a pain to control as is -- and doubly so when they target people at random with their damage spells, if they're not punching me in the face, I'm not getting the rage to bump threat. We tried switching it so that Blave was tanking Romulo, but Romulo was running loose to the raid despite an initial mangle. We also had terrible luck with a last fraction of a second where Romulo rezzed Julianne. Having a ton of leftover rage from Romulo initially, I was able to control him and have Blave pull him from me. That seemed to work pretty well -- but again, it was really just another learning experience adapting to a radically different group makeup. Julianne also targets people at random to cast Blinding Passion -- 6k holy damage DOT. If you get hit with that -- dont sit there for 30 seconds without bandaging and wonder why the next one kills you. Especially when we only have 2 dedicated healers.
) -- and I watched that thing tick a good 8 out of 10 seconds on me. Sometimes it was pulled off quickly, sometimes it ticked the full 10 seconds. This is one of the boss's major moves as it decreases our chance to hit by 50% or some amazingly bad amount. No hit = no threat = he kills you because you didn't stop DPSing to decurse. Midnight also has a knockdown which stuns for 3 seconds, the combination of those two means Midnight bites your face. Your JOB as a decurser is to decurse, and secondarily to DPS in this fight. That means cancel the current cast and get it off me and the OT immediately, then the rest of the raid. Your penis size will remain the same regardless of the damage meters. In fact, this is one of the primary reasons my horde raid guild banned them -- you have a role in a fight, know it - do it - collect loot. As an aside, there's a difference between smart DPS and stupid DPS. Stupid DPS doesn't stop when the tank loses aggro. Stupid DPS front loads with high damage and doesn't pad for the inevitable crit. Stupid DPS pays attention to their numbers in comparison to other DPS rather than tank threat. Smart DPS puts out consistant damage and rides just below threat enough that a crit will not exceed threat. Aggro dump if you have any questions .. dont rely on KTM telling you, it can and will fail. Moroes: I think having 3 priests was actually somewhat of a detriment based on Moroes's skills combined with Amulec's spec. In not having "Defiance" (+15% threat in defensive stance), there really isn't a reason to even be in defensive stance excepting when he's gouged me. Threat was a big problem since after the first mob went down, and the raid started to DPS him - we didn't have that long of a time for Amulec to threat up -- when I was gouged, he ate someone. Blave also ate hot fiery death early on. In hindsight, I'm thinking that if we have another tanking type -- it might be best to "bear up" and tank those off mobs instead of kiting, kiting was impossible anyways since we didnt have slowing effects on them (no rogues crippling, or frost mages) so it was easy for them to keep whomping.. Opera -- Romulo/Julianne: Group makeup was pretty key to the failures here. We only had two people (warriors) who could interrupt Julianne's Eternal Affection(heal) .. we tried with Amulec being the only interrupt, but one heal makes a significant difference in the fight. Honestly I'm a terrible person to put in charge of the interrupts -- if I'm saving my global cooldown / rage, I'm not threatting -- and if she runs loose, I have nothing to bring her back but melee damage rage. Casters are a pain to control as is -- and doubly so when they target people at random with their damage spells, if they're not punching me in the face, I'm not getting the rage to bump threat. We tried switching it so that Blave was tanking Romulo, but Romulo was running loose to the raid despite an initial mangle. We also had terrible luck with a last fraction of a second where Romulo rezzed Julianne. Having a ton of leftover rage from Romulo initially, I was able to control him and have Blave pull him from me. That seemed to work pretty well -- but again, it was really just another learning experience adapting to a radically different group makeup. Julianne also targets people at random to cast Blinding Passion -- 6k holy damage DOT. If you get hit with that -- dont sit there for 30 seconds without bandaging and wonder why the next one kills you. Especially when we only have 2 dedicated healers. Raid Report 9/11 - ...
On the note of interrupts: I thought there were 2 mages? Counterspell should work on her heal. Scrolling combat text flashes "Immune" above her because she is immune to the silence mechanic, but sites all over the web suggest mages making a macro to focus on her and counterspell her heals.
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
That makes a lot of sense. None of the guides I saw mentioned mages for interrupts (other than spellstealing) -- but I came into the fight with that impression, yet one of the mages said they couldn't when they tried. Bummer .. I'd like to try on my mage and get a definative answer. (edit - added info) I checked out the combat log -- and it appears that Blastine's counterspell was resisted. Immune would not even show up in the combat log ... this was just bad luck based on the first attempt, and we discounted it as a possibilty with the bad information.Miramel wroteOn the note of interrupts: I thought there were 2 mages? Counterspell should work on her heal. Scrolling combat text flashes "Immune" above her because she is immune to the silence mechanic, but sites all over the web suggest mages making a macro to focus on her and counterspell her heals.
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
I know that I counterspelled a few times, but couldn't figure out if was mine that did the interrupt of a warriors. Might as well do it if you got it, and hope it works.
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
For what it's worth -- I wasn't referring to anyone in particular here, nor suggesting that is what was happening. I re-read what I posted and it seems like I was ..Chuunks wroteAs an aside, there's a difference between smart DPS and stupid DPS. Stupid DPS doesn't stop when the tank loses aggro. Stupid DPS front loads with high damage and doesn't pad for the inevitable crit. Stupid DPS pays attention to their numbers in comparison to other DPS rather than tank threat. Smart DPS puts out consistant damage and rides just below threat enough that a crit will not exceed threat. Aggro dump if you have any questions .. dont rely on KTM telling you, it can and will fail.
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
After reading some more posts, it seems like the mages counterspell is actually the preferred interrupt of choice on this fight, since her heal is only a 2 or 2.5 sec cast, and counterspell can be cast in the global cooldown. If the rogues were inside the GCD, they couldn't kick. Of course, this requires a /stopcasting and /target and then cast macro, but I know from personal rogue experience in this fight that I usually wait until a heal and sit there white damaging until a heal, then do some backstabs, then hold off to make sure I am not caught in the GCD. But yeah, since its on like a 10 sec cooldown (her heal) everyone might as well spam their interrupts just to make sure it doesn't go through.
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
So, are we going to start a little earlier tonight since there are so many bosses left?
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
I can run earlier tonight if we need... Maybe you can help me with some useful macros later lol
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
All good stuff, thanks for the post and the run
I learned a few new things about the various bosses that have not been covered in group 2 ... I hope this will help group 2 more. Actually that is a good point, switching the groups around a little helps in the transference of knowledge ... eventually we will be moving on into the "MORE difficult than Karazhan" instance Zul'Aman and others will need to carry the torch into Karazhan for new members.
Moroes fight: Note to self, don't tank in Cat unless you have already sent your PayPal money to the healers
Romulo/Julianne fight: The first wipe Romulo bolted from me straight to the casters, I was spamming swipe and nothing happened, I missed him fair and square. The second wipe I swear I saw my mangle hit him ... maybe it missed? I could have been seeing things too. The third fight, Romulo never left Chuunks and it was HARD pulling aggro ... I saw Chuunks hit him like 2 or 3 times and then stop all combat, even after that, it took one trip down my hot bar (2,4,6,8,8,8...) to pull Romulo off of Chuunks. Is it possible Romulo's aggro table does not completely reset after he dies? Maybe I should have done the entire fight in Bear and worked on building a HUGE amount of aggro? Either way, I freely admit I need more practice in Bear
I learned a few new things about the various bosses that have not been covered in group 2 ... I hope this will help group 2 more. Actually that is a good point, switching the groups around a little helps in the transference of knowledge ... eventually we will be moving on into the "MORE difficult than Karazhan" instance Zul'Aman and others will need to carry the torch into Karazhan for new members.
Moroes fight: Note to self, don't tank in Cat unless you have already sent your PayPal money to the healers
Romulo/Julianne fight: The first wipe Romulo bolted from me straight to the casters, I was spamming swipe and nothing happened, I missed him fair and square. The second wipe I swear I saw my mangle hit him ... maybe it missed? I could have been seeing things too. The third fight, Romulo never left Chuunks and it was HARD pulling aggro ... I saw Chuunks hit him like 2 or 3 times and then stop all combat, even after that, it took one trip down my hot bar (2,4,6,8,8,8...) to pull Romulo off of Chuunks. Is it possible Romulo's aggro table does not completely reset after he dies? Maybe I should have done the entire fight in Bear and worked on building a HUGE amount of aggro? Either way, I freely admit I need more practice in Bear
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
On moroes, we usually have rogues with slowing poison, and sorta kite the adds while we're killing them. I think we just went in, thinking everything would be fine, but whoops... no rogues. Yea, with that group make up, blave bear tanking in dps gear on the first add or two, and then going back to regular cat dps for moroes would have been smart.
I think mostly, the group was just too overconfident and assumed things would go as normal, despite our altered group. Not that it wasn't a poor idea, nor that it couldn't have gone smoother - I just think people who switched didn't take enough time to think "What do I normally do on this fight, and will I or someone else be able to replace that ability?"
Just a heads up - I told nick and scotty earlier, but my start time is going to be iffy - there's people coming over, and it's pretty much whenever they leave. So, I might be on time, or undeterminably late. Feel free to get things going if there's a replacement for me, I can always be a replacement if someone has to go later. I'm gonna try to send scotty a text near raid time, maybe I'll have a better idea then.
I think mostly, the group was just too overconfident and assumed things would go as normal, despite our altered group. Not that it wasn't a poor idea, nor that it couldn't have gone smoother - I just think people who switched didn't take enough time to think "What do I normally do on this fight, and will I or someone else be able to replace that ability?"
Just a heads up - I told nick and scotty earlier, but my start time is going to be iffy - there's people coming over, and it's pretty much whenever they leave. So, I might be on time, or undeterminably late. Feel free to get things going if there's a replacement for me, I can always be a replacement if someone has to go later. I'm gonna try to send scotty a text near raid time, maybe I'll have a better idea then.
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
I think I see exactly what happened on the Romulo fight now that I've pined through the logs specifically. Romulo's aggro is reset after he dies (as evidenced by him not gunning for me immediately when he's back). However he is not actually "dead" ... as DOTs keep ticking away at him. Take a look at this, the time before last: 06:51'48.203 Onestar's Corruption dots Romulo for 501 Shadow damage 203 Blastine's Fireball hits Romulo for 2818 Fire damage 203 Romulo's Melee hits Chuunks for 520 (329 blocked) 359 Amulec's Melee crits Romulo for 1007 390 Romulo dies 484 Zuklen's Vampiric Touch dots Romulo for 327 Shadow damage (86 resisted) 06:51'49.093 Onestar's Shadow Bolt resisted by Romulo 593 Phrikk's Ignite dots Romulo for 306 Fire damage 06:51'50.218 Blastine's Fireball dots Romulo for 26 Fire damage (7 resisted) 921 Zuklen's Shadow Word: Pain dots Romulo for 539 Shadow damage 06:51'51.156 Onestar's Corruption dots Romulo for 502 Shadow damage 531 Zuklen's Vampiric Touch dots Romulo for 436 Shadow damage 06:51'52.140 Blastine's Fireball dots Romulo for 34 Fire damage 06:51'53.890 Zuklen's Shadow Word: Pain dots Romulo for 538 Shadow damage 06:51'54.281 Onestar's Corruption dots Romulo for 501 Shadow damage 281 Blastine's Fireball dots Romulo for 34 Fire damage 640 Zuklen's Vampiric Touch dots Romulo for 436 Shadow damage 06:51'56.062 Julianne's Undying Love heals Romulo for 32767 250 Blastine's Fireball dots Romulo for 34 Fire damage 06:51'57.031 Zuklen's Shadow Word: Pain dots Romulo for 539 Shadow damage 296 Onestar's Corruption dots Romulo for 501 Shadow damage 296 Blave's Mangle (Bear) parried by Romulo 296 Blave's Melee misses Romulo 671 Zuklen's Vampiric Touch dots Romulo for 436 Shadow damage 06:51'59.140 Romulo's Melee hits Zuklen for 3362 171 Romulo's Poisoned Thrust hits Zuklen for 3597 796 Blave's Melee hits Romulo for 242 (glancing) ... looks like an unlucky parry/miss. As opposed to this (the final attempt): 07:06'10.140 Onestar's Corruption dots Romulo for 456 Shadow damage 187 Romulo dies 203 Phrikk's Ignite dots Romulo for 355 Fire damage 421 Onestar's Shadow Bolt resisted by Romulo 656 Dudepal's Vampiric Touch dots Romulo for 445 Shadow damage 781 Blastine's Fireball dots Romulo for 35 Fire damage 07:06'11.250 Blastine's Ignite dots Romulo for 875 Fire damage 07:06'12.312 Onestar's Immolate dots Romulo for 355 Fire damage 765 Blastine's Fireball dots Romulo for 35 Fire damage 07:06'13.140 Onestar's Corruption dots Romulo for 435 Shadow damage 250 Blastine's Ignite dots Romulo for 875 Fire damage 07:06'14.937 Blastine's Fireball dots Romulo for 35 Fire damage 07:06'15.156 Onestar's Immolate dots Romulo for 355 Fire damage 953 Onestar's Corruption dots Romulo for 434 Shadow damage 07:06'16.875 Blastine's Fireball dots Romulo for 18 Fire damage (14 resisted) 07:06'17.296 Julianne's Undying Love heals Romulo for 32767 07:06'18.203 Chuunks's Melee hits Romulo for 170 203 Romulo's Poisoned Thrust hits Chuunks for 1614 (329 blocked) 203 Onestar's Immolate dots Romulo for 355 Fire damage 562 Blave's Melee hits Romulo for 285 562 Chuunks's Reflect hits Romulo for 23 Nature damage 562 Chuunks's Shield Slam hits Romulo for 530 562 Blave's Swipe hits Romulo for 140 07:06'19.125 Onestar's Corruption dots Romulo for 434 Shadow damage Similar situation without the miss (and the absence of Zuklen's DoTs). I'm right clicking like mad ready for the respawn to try and get my high aggro move in, and it still takes a good second to do it. If I had missed though, Blave would probably have had him that time. Honestly I dont know the threat of various druid moves, but mangle might have been still the best choice -- as it was really just an unlucky miss in the first case. In the future for this fight -- it would be agood idea to call off DOTs when Romulo gets close to death, just to make it easier for whichever tank is picking him up to grab him just in case of a "whiff" on an opening move.
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
Dang06:51'56.062 Julianne's Undying Love heals Romulo for 32767
250 Blastine's Fireball dots Romulo for 34 Fire damage
06:51'57.031 Zuklen's Shadow Word: Pain dots Romulo for 539 Shadow damage
296 Onestar's Corruption dots Romulo for 501 Shadow damage
296 Blave's Mangle (Bear) parried by Romulo
296 Blave's Melee misses Romulo
3 DOTs ticked before my double "wiff" (ouch my back, like swinging at a baseball and missing) ... but the Mangle would need to crit to clear 539 ... I need to get my hit rating up in Bear, that's for-sure. I can clearly see how important it is for a higher hit rating as a tank ... you just can't miss that opening round.
You are correct, Mangle would have been better on the final fight ... I just Swiped out of panic
Raid Report 9/11 - ...
This is fantastic information folks. I will place a note for the folks looking at the Thursday thread to have a looksee here. This is exactly what we should all be doing to learn about each encounter and how to do things better!-Mahnalor