Leo Learning Experiences

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » March 14th, 2008, 5:09 am

Couple things stood out last night and in the WWS: * We're good about stopping DPS when it's obvious, in the whirlwind -- but when he was coming out of his demon phase, those DoT classes need to pay more strict attention to when yours are going to expire. He's in the phase for a precise amount of time, there is an optimal time to cast a Fireball / refresh dots. * The number of crushing blows I get is directly related to the amount of control we have of the fight. If I'm fighting for threat, I'm missing my blocks spending all my rage on threat moves. However, when he's coming out of his form or stopping whirlwind -- I can do better about having it up initially *anticipating* control. * Battle Stance > Berserker Stance for dealing with your Inner Demon. My spell reflection took a HUGE chunk out of it's life, next time I'm hitting it first and maybe the cooldown will allow another in the phase. * I need to separate Leo from his demonic form, not sure why he headed so fast towards Fargol when they were split after a whirlwind. * Leo has ZERO threat whencoming out of whirlwind. I was putting up a rend while he ran around, which "in a perfect world" should be enough to get him to focus on me -- but remember, and self-buffs / heals / etc. will cause him to turn towards you as well. My intercept cooldown was < his whirlwind cooldown, and I have short legs -- chasing him sucks, anticipating where he's going rocks. I have a few things I'm going to try next time...

jerome736 · Post by **jerome736** » March 14th, 2008, 7:27 am

Yeah I noticed when Fargol pulled the shadow form back to the back of the platform after the split, it definitely helps out so we don't get whirlwinded to hell and high water.

Benvolo · Post by **Benvolo** » March 14th, 2008, 8:36 am

Something I noticed from the WWS, was there were a handful of people that stayed alive for the whole fight, spent 75%- 95% percent of that time dps'ing, and only mustered out 300-400 dps. I understand we had people on alts, and people in pvp gear, to get the numbers... but just to put that in perspective, my wand does almost about 140dps. almost half of what some people churned out for that fight. I know that the alts and new folks don't really have the gear a lot of us do, but I saw many people that didn't even have a food buff on. To me that means you don't care. I saw other people in crappy gear, but it had +hit on it, and they were using consumables. To me that means they care. And if your excuse for wearing greens that have no +hit on them in ssc is that you can't get gear if you can't raid... Learn to craft. Learn to pvp for the weps. Learn to Heroic. L2Farm gold to buy gear like the rest of us. We don't expect an alt to be decked out in the best epics in the game. But when it is obvious that you haven't tried to gear them for a long time, Benvolo gets pissed. It is your choice to bring that toon to the raid many times, and I didn't drop 7k gold on my crafted sets, enchants, and gear to bring you along for the loot train. /rant

jerome736 · Post by **jerome736** » March 14th, 2008, 9:07 am

/agree with Andy...I'm not paying my repair bill and burning all those consumables etc., to compensate for your (general no one specific) lazy, undergeared, unenchanted, non-consumable burning, ass.

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » March 14th, 2008, 9:24 am

Wow -- this discussion turned sideways. In general, everyone should be doing whatever they can to be on the top of their game. That's everything that has been mentioned before (welfare epics, heroics, craftables, food buffs, pots, enchants, etc..) You should really tune your raid character to it's maximum potential. However, we DID need warm bodies to fill the raid last night. The top performers will always have a spot, the poor performers are going to get to raid in situations where we need "filler". Decide which you want to be. If you're playing an alt during the week ... I would hope he's farming mats for enchants/pots/gold on your main. Raiding is not cheap. These are not free epics, you need to be investing to get the dividends. If people aren't putting it in, we may have to go with some sort of pseudo loot council to distribute to people who are putting in the necessary effort, while we look to replace you.

Beiner · Post by **Beiner** » March 14th, 2008, 10:16 am

I agree with Benvolo and Chuunks here. I understand last night was a scramble to fill slots, however we get the same things on normal raid nights. If we are looking to progress, all 25 people in the raid have to be spec'd, ench, buffed, etc. to do so. We also have to understand our roles and pay attention with transitions/aggro. I'm not pointing at anyone in specific as I am guilty of this as well (especially when Dustin tanks Kara), but we really have to put the raid above ourselves i.e. farm mats/spend gold for respecs etc. PVE!=PVP.... Some gear from PVP is better than what we currently have access to in PVE, but spec is very important as well as rotations. If you are unsure of what rotation best utilizes your abilities, you can find them on the EJ forums with a bunch of people and data that have tested some of this out. Whatever your role is, do it to the best of your ability. Benvolo mentioned DPS, and if you look at previous WWS we have the same problem. If you have a full-time DPS role, you should be well above the main tank... I don't mean to be rude or anything like that, but I understand how much time/effort/gold into their class so that they can progress. If your intention is getting into the raid, please put in the same effort. But then again, what do I know...I'm just the new guy on the block.

Beiner · Post by **Beiner** » March 14th, 2008, 10:18 am

One other thing I forgot to mention is we get 1-2 days a week, with 2-3 hours each day to progress. It's even more important for everyone to be ready, attentive, and prepared if we want to see more end game.

Hardwigg · Post by **Hardwigg** » March 14th, 2008, 10:22 am

I agree with the above posts. But also remember, even though last night was rough, FA also downed Hydross this week. So it counts as a good week, despite last night's stresses.

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » March 14th, 2008, 11:19 am

Hardwigg wrote I agree with the above posts. But also remember, even though last night was rough, FA also downed Hydross this week. So it counts as a good week, despite last night's stresses.

Huzzah!!! /agree /agree /agree New bosses down tickle my happy spot.

Miluda · Post by **Miluda** » March 14th, 2008, 11:38 am

I'm not speaking for anyone here, but for myself, putting out high DPS on fights like Hydross and Leo is extremely hard. Since they're incredibly aggro-sensitive fights, refreshing my DOTs could very well wipe the raid.. and these DOTs are a huge portion of my dps. So my performance on those two bosses is very lacking.

thandrenn · Post by **thandrenn** » March 14th, 2008, 12:21 pm

Just tossing my own four copper in here. I feel bad for DoT-based DPS classes (like Locks and Spriests) in these fights. Maintaining heavy DPS and then suddenly stopping is difficult. I myself held back several times (though my DPS is neglible since I'm still in Tanking gear) rather than charge in and get 2 hits before I had to run back out for a transition.

We also had someone call out the "Burn him down" command at 15%. Just ignore this madman. In both tries that's when things got real chaotic. I felt real bad watching Leo run wild on the raid and Chuunks struggling to pick him back up. It's insanely hard for a tank (MELEE) to pick back up a moving target running semi-randomly with people still generating threat on him.

As for my own, I didn't learn a whole lot new except standing behind one of those little things that stick out of the ground near the ramp seemed to help me avoid most of the whirlwinds. I got one through there once, but it seemed to be a marker for me to just distance from him. I didn't have an inner demon this time, but I'm glad to hear spell reflect works.

Last night wasn't necessarily our A-Team I think, and there may have been people there with gear/specs we would not prefer, but we started with 24 people so we couldn't afford to drop anyone. We prefer A-Team people, but we take what we can get. I know in the trash pulls someone accidentally DoTed a sheeped mob and then was scolded for it by a person who later shot their own CC accidentally. Accidents happen. We're human. Learn, move on.

Having said all that, we DID get Leo down in 2 tries and we DID get a first boss kill on Tuesday. WowJutsu also scanned us again and we seem to have jumped from ~51 to 42 in the Destromath rankings. Must've been that Hydross kill. I also got my Mace... PRECIOUS..... Kara groups 2, 3 and whatever Chuunks calls his had successful runs, we one-shotted HKM & Gruul again. And I even got to experience Gruul from a DPS/Warlock perspective. We killed all the 25 man bosses we previously have and got a new one down. A good week. I'm pleased.

P.S. Yes, I realize G2 ran sunday and thusly it was *last raiding week*. Don't bore me with details.

bravsirrobin · Post by **bravsirrobin** » March 14th, 2008, 12:26 pm

I have to say though. we had more people within close proximity of each other as far as dps percentages than usual. I think there was bout 9 or 10 of us only 1-2% a part from each other which is how is should be. Every dps class should be passing the tank and in a perfect scenario should be within a percent or two from the top dps. That's a goal everyone should strive for and if you're having trouble, go http://elitistjerks.com/forums.php read up on your class. Every class has a dps rotation, once you learn it and itemize your gear right you should have no problem passing the tank on dps.

jerome736 · Post by **jerome736** » March 14th, 2008, 12:38 pm

Miluda wrote I'm not speaking for anyone here, but for myself, putting out high DPS on fights like Hydross and Leo is extremely hard. Since they're incredibly aggro-sensitive fights, refreshing my DOTs could very well wipe the raid.. and these DOTs are a huge portion of my dps. So my performance on those two bosses is very lacking.

Speaking for myself, when it comes to SPriests I'm happy to have any DPS at all from them in addition to their party regenerative abilities.

Kaittlynn · Post by **Kaittlynn** » March 14th, 2008, 12:57 pm

Just my 2 bits from a healers stand point. I tried to have everyone topped off when I could. The prblem I did have is when I saw people health going down but I couldnt help them because I didnt know where they were. There were a few times when I actually ran closer towards Leo hoping to get in range of some of those I could not reach. I know that for the most part I could reach a lot of the other healers. Should we try to have designated "Areas" for the healers to try to stand around so that there arent healing blind spots? I know personally I love my spot cuz I run and hide behind the tent during whirlwinds

. At the same time, maybe we are ok, I just thought I would throw this out there.

Beiner · Post by **Beiner** » March 14th, 2008, 1:39 pm

I apologize if my previous post strayed from the accomplishments we had this week. We had an awesome week, got through pretty much everything we've cleared to this point and then some. I just wanted to point out little areas where we can really excel and burn through some of this content.