Thursday 8/30 Raid Report

Han · Post by **Han** » September 3rd, 2007, 2:55 pm

Whoops just saw your post with the stats. Since Drp is fist spec, just sinister strike the heck out of them I guess. I think we had to swap out our off tank for a DPS for a couple weeks if I remember correctly. One thing I found useful when buffing is to use Onslaught elixir instead of elixir of major agility (or a flask of relentless assault), then you can still use a scroll of agility and a scroll of strength to buff yourself, since the attack power buff is not eating up a stat slot. Don't forget about the scrolls!

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 3rd, 2007, 4:52 pm

Miramel wroteI think we had to swap out our off tank for a DPS for a couple weeks if I remember correctly.

We swapped out Chuunks for Drumble, this is definately not a melee friendly fight. Honestly he doesn't hit too hard so tanking isn't too much of an issue (yet he is still a level 73 boss mob, so crushing blows, etc, etc..) -- and threat is easy since ALL dps practically should be on the flares. (*note* Get KTM focus frame on Curator, otherwise the rogues will freak you out with their threat. I remember screaming "OMG flash!!" before realizing it was damage on flares -- and then MAJOR damage during evocation.) If you bunch up I think it makes it a pretty healing intensive fight (which I think it is regardless) -- as DPS, I kind of thought of flares as "my contribution to their death". I know Miramel mentioned 3 backstabs -- for Drumble it was Scorch/Scorch/Fire Blast -- if it was left with a little bit of life left, I ignored it anticipating a warrior to execute or my burn effect to get it. It's important to be on that next flare AS SOON as it spawns. If the flare headed right for me, it was scorch/scorch/fire blast/dragon breath - -usually not much left for melee at that point. Additionally -- that transition from evocation to the next flare set is immediate, just like Illhoof's chains - you need to interrupt whatever spell you were casting and get back onto the flare cycle. Getting behind on flares = raid death.

Fargol · Post by **Fargol** » September 3rd, 2007, 7:04 pm

Mahnalor wroteAfter Maiden was down, we decided to head on over to try one of the Beast bosses in the Servants Quarters. We had issues with respawns coming up after the 30-minute timer and were finally able to draw out the boss. Apparently, according to wowwiki, this was supposed to happen this way.. clear all mobs... clear a few respawns.. then the boss appears which we have to clear some more to get to him. Fun in the sense as none of us knew what to expect.. not fun in the sense that we now understand why folks do not do this part on a regular basis So we drew out Rokad the Ravager, defeated him and looted...Ravager's Cuffs with +56 fire damage. Not really worth the trade off for our local fire mage, Another.. so off to the DE block it went....

Yea - that's how it's supposed to work... but just think - back when we went and did that when we were first starting kara... you couldn't even d/e the crap that dropped. 40 minutes for some crap NR resist of the crap wrist. yay. Yea, we were just as hopeful for loot, as we had picked up only 2-3 pieces of loot so far, but it is pretty dismal. Needless to say, once and only once should anyone see an animal boss fight in kara :-p

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 4th, 2007, 4:42 am

I've now read the WWS and have some specific advice to give. My experience lies with magery and warrior..osity, so my focus will be there -- but let me preface this by saying that I'm not passing judgement nor trying to make anyone feel like they did something wrong, this is just my personal take on how to fine tune what happened, with the group that was present - into success.Another is a fire mage, he seemed right on the money - scorching, then fire blasting. Fast cast spells for the win.Kurumi's main spell was frost bolt. Even talented, that's a 2.5 second cast time -- probably not the best spell to use in a fast damaging situation, the Frozen Shadoweave set is nice, but that extra 100 damage or so (based on comparable gear) from using frost spells is just not going to be worth it in the long run. I would argue that even a frost mage would be better served using scorch as a reliable damage spell. On top of that -- Fire Blast should be your super-fast-damage-friend and I only saw it cast once, every single Astral Flare should be hit with a fire blast. My rotation was scorch/scorch/fire blast (3 secs) - and the Flare would drop. My guess is you were only getting in one frost bolt (2.5 secs) -- the second was either cancelled or spent on an already dying mob if it stayed alive > 5 secs.Thandrenn is a protection warrior still - I'm sure I've told everyone here about my opinion of two protection spec warriors in a raid. I dont mean this to come out rude -- but DPS is the key to a lot of these fights. The utility of having a protection warrior is lost as you progress further into the instance - a mob pull here or there, it's my OPINION that it would be better to tough it through the first two bosses rather than gimp the rest of the instance with two people not putting out DPS. That said, trying to make this work -- as hateful bolt taker, he should still be dual weilding and devastating - probably in berserker stance - you can still put out damage when protection, you just have to figure out a new rotation. Shield block is wasted rage - none of the damage you'll receive is physical, shield bash is definately wasted rage -- both I would think to be a finger slip, but they were used so frequently that I think it was just a normal tanking rotation.Just a couple ideas .. hopefully not offending anyone.

Mahnalor · Post by **Mahnalor** » September 6th, 2007, 4:01 pm

Many thanks for taking a look at the report and offering suggestions Chuunks. These are genuinely constructive comments regarding your assessment of how things are going and what is representative in the logs. I think each point mentioned has definitive merits and we should work on improving them. I hope everyone is looking at these and keeping an eye out for how they would improve themselves, and the raid group, on our boss encounters. Thanks again!-Mahnalor

kurumi · Post by **kurumi** » September 7th, 2007, 1:12 pm

Interesting advice.. I will give it a shot next go around and see how it works out. When switching to a boss/or mob with more longevity would you use the frostbolt, or would you stick with that fast dps approach? -Kurumi

kurumi · Post by **kurumi** » September 7th, 2007, 1:19 pm

Seems like there has been some movement between the tuesday/thursday groups of late. If we are moving mages around , I would be open to moving to Tuesday nights. -Kurumi

Han · Post by **Han** » September 7th, 2007, 1:41 pm

IMO, mages are not really specifically required in a group (maybe oz), meaning they can trade with any other dps slot and it should work out fine (prolly better than melee in some fights). So, my advice is to log on on tuesday at raid time and we will do what we did this past week, invite everyone who wants to go, and let people in the right positions work out who goes and who sits on the spot. Personally, I am a permanent volunteer to sit out on either group (or help out, I don't really care). I just want to see that realm rank continue to improve and more purples for everyone!-Scott

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 7th, 2007, 1:54 pm

kurumi wroteInteresting advice.. I will give it a shot next go around and see how it works out. When switching to a boss/or mob with more longevity would you use the frostbolt, or would you stick with that fast dps approach? -Kurumi

Honestly I think it's a case-by-case scenario. (and again, thank you for not taking offense at my attempt to be contructive.

) Typically I think based on your spec it's great to stick with the frost bolts, that extra .5 seconds on many longer boss fights and the extended range helps a lot. Since these things die so quick, you might find good rotation with frost bolt (2.5) / scorch (1.5) / fire blast - depending on how long the flares are staying alive. You definately want to get that fire blast in last, because you'll have a global cooldown afterwards .. additionally, this rotation would take advantage of the additional fire damage debuff applied if you're paired with a scorch wizard (not sure about Another's spec -- Drumble/Phrikk are both scorchers).Two frost bolts and a fire blast are probably fine as well if the mobs are staying alive > 6 seconds.

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 7th, 2007, 2:00 pm

Miramel wroteIMO, mages are not really specifically required in a group (maybe oz), meaning they can trade with any other dps slot and it should work out fine (prolly better than melee in some fights).

Mages (or a non-feral druid? uncertain) are really reeeeally good for Attumen's debuff that decreases hit chance = sloooow threat. Additionally those ghosties on the way to Curator have a similar curse debuff. Plus everyone likes water.

(I'm a mage too - dont hate me for saying it.

) This instance is undead and sort of a pain for mages utility because of the lack of CC chances (err wait, those mobs right before Curator too now that I think it.)Again, "Group 1" is not exclusive elitests, we had great success last time in inviting everyone on and wanting to go and having people negotiate amongst themselves. Like Miramel said -- just come on Tuesday and make yourself known if you're not already scheduled for the Thursday raid night.

Kaittlynn · Post by **Kaittlynn** » September 7th, 2007, 4:09 pm

Miramel wrote...my advice is to log on on tuesday at raid time and we will do what we did this past week, invite everyone who wants to go, and let people in the right positions work out who goes and who sits on the spot... -Scott

Honestly, I did not understand on Tuesday why 12 people were invited into the group. I thought it was silly when it is only a 10 man instance. To do it that way sucked for me as when there was the discussion of 'who was gonna sit out' warriors and healers said "Oh we can sit out" and I followed suit for me and John (Mahonri). That left 4 people left to say, 'Oh we could really sit out too.' I wasnt gonna say anything about this, but know that it has been offered as a 'Thing to do', I feel I need to say something. It really sucked when someone mentioned "Roll for it" and I did. Then was told well, it is between you and John. I had assumed all non healers/ tanks and OT would be the ones rolling, not just me and him. For someone to say we will invite everyone and let people decide really sucks, because some of us actually put time and money into getting ready. Not everyone obviously, and that is why it sucks when those people get a spot. I had spent time before school getting Kaittlynn completely ready to run Kara and then had to sit out because too many people were invited. Especially after someone had said Mains should be over alts and an alt got to run in grp 1 last Tuesday. I really dont understand the point of me getting prepared if everyone is going. Kara takes time and planning. Why should I put in that time 'Just in Case' I will actually get to go. I really like how grp 2 has a lineup posted before raid night. We have not had to do this in Grp 1 as it had been kinda set. I am sorry if everyone in Grp 2 or not a grp at all wants to go with Grp 1. It is only a 10 man instance. I think that Grp 2 is moving about at the same pace as Grp 1 did. I know it sucks to not clear it in 2 days, but until everyone has their spot perfected it is gonna take a few more days. I know in Grp 1 we used to allow for a 3rd day to finish Kara, maybe Grp 2 should try this method instead of everyone running to get into Grp 1. I know not everyone here is 'Hard Core', but you do not need to be hardcore to put in the time. For everyone just to expect to fit into grp 1 because they do clear it is like a lvl 60 asking a few 70s to run them thru Scholo. They want a run through, not to play the game. Dont get me wrong, I dont mind the opportunity to offer my spot to others, I just dont wanna be forced to offer myself after I have spent the time to prepare.

dudepal · Post by **dudepal** » September 7th, 2007, 5:26 pm

Well, the big point about inviting everyone was in part to show just how hard it is to pick which 10 get to go. Everyone invited that night had assumed days prior that they would be going that day. It gets pretty hard for me after a while to turn people down week after week because they were a few minutes late, or someone else has run a few times more, or whatever. As far as saying who would sit out, I meant that as more of a "who actually doesn't mind sitting out". I had been invited by some friends to go do something that night, so I really didn't mind sitting out. As far as the rolling goes, I'm pretty sure all of the healers didn't mind sitting(not sure if that's true or if they were being nice) but I really think that first night would be just fine with two healers. I mean heck, we've done the 2nd half with two healers before. So when i had said roll, I was under the impression that it would be you two and the 3 healers. But then I got turned down for sitting out so it was just up to you two. Sorry about that. I guess it was just a confusion about wording. I didn't mean any hard feelings. I guess my big point is that there are always 12 or so "invited" but we only bring in 10, and the 2 that don't get invited don't get the recognition from the others that they're sitting out.

Sniper · Post by **Sniper** » September 7th, 2007, 8:53 pm

I started w/ g2 when be4 the paragon guys left, then did kara w/ g1 3 times. Atm i dont know where do i belong or what night i can raid, i always asked to join but was basicaly a back up dps (in case some1 didnt show up). I will participate in gruul's on wednesdays but i'll take a break from kara for a few weeks until things will clear out, i dont want to generate any kind of drama, i always hate those things.

thandrenn · Post by **thandrenn** » September 7th, 2007, 9:21 pm

Paragon guys left? Some of us are still here

Regarding the suggestions of my continued presence in Kara raids as off-tank, I've been tinkering with Talent Calculators. I'd rather not completely drop Protection as I still think there's some useful stuff there. Especially since I'd like to continue tanking 5-mans where needed. I've heard it suggested that so long as the gear is there, Prot isn't needed - but I'm dubious. What I'm looking at currently: Arms/Prot - 41/0/20 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LcGcdAbog0zioZfVzoIM Fury/Prot - 0/41/20 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LZVVuVxxRVzbofVzoIM For now though I haven't changed anything. I'm "still" Prot.

thandrenn · Post by **thandrenn** » September 7th, 2007, 9:26 pm

Wow, I hate this forum. Re-posting with hard line breaks. Paragon guys left? Some of us are still here

Regarding the suggestions of my continued presence in Kara raids as off-tank, I've been tinkering with Talent Calculators. I'd rather not completely drop Protection as I still think there's some useful stuff there. Especially since I'd like to continue tanking 5-mans where needed. I've heard it suggested that so long as the gear is there, Prot isn't needed - but I'm dubious. What I'm looking at currently:Arms/Prot - 41/0/20 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LcGcdAbog0zioZfVzoIM Fury/Prot - 0/41/20 http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LZVVuVxxRVzbofVzoIM For now though I haven't changed anything. I'm "still" Prot.

Mahnalor · Post by **Mahnalor** » September 8th, 2007, 3:18 pm

I have tried this build and I like it in terms of DPS and the ability to keep rage up when pl;aying a role of OT. Additionaly, it will still allow you to be able to tank for 50mans. When all is said and done, its personal preference... though you wont know if you like it until youve tried it

http://wowhead.com/?talent=LZVVzVgxoiuVofVzohYou can always take a point here and there to put into Deflection in the Arms tree...-Mahnalor

Sniper · Post by **Sniper** » September 8th, 2007, 6:35 pm

If u want to try a hybrid between some PvP and OT (5 men instance tanking) u might try this one: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/cla ... 0100000000 u get nice skills like 5% to crit , 5% parry, cheaper thunderclap, MS, a good agro generation.you dont need 41 pts in arm or furry to have nice dps or for pvp