Thursday 9/13 Raid Report

mahonri · Post by **mahonri** » September 14th, 2007, 1:20 pm

Ya, excellent job last night. Well done! Most of the fights were textbook knock em dead and I loved it. Agro was a problem on a few fights, not sure what went on exactly as KTM said I was good and low enough to acount for a crit and then I was DEAD, but oh well life goes on. I will admit that going into the night I was worried about agro, as I tend to ride that wave really close with Chuunks, but my fears were soon gone as Mahnalor and Thandrenn rocked. Great job to all.

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 14th, 2007, 1:28 pm

I went back and edited my previous post with more info on Romulo in particular -- you need to wing it for phase 3 since threat is reset for both on death.

Han · Post by **Han** » September 14th, 2007, 1:33 pm

Nice stats! I see a couple dps'ers approaching the 500 dps mark pretty fast. I really felt like once a couple of tuesday group dps'ers went above 500 into the 550 range, encounters started getting noticeably easier and faster. Keep up the improvements!

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 14th, 2007, 1:46 pm

I'm pretty sure I know what happend in the Maiden fight to Thandrenn. This fight is unforgiving to say the least to melee - her Holy Wrath spell is a chain effect that has amplified damage every hop. The more the melee, the bigger the chain. Deadly Boss Mods will show if you're too close to your neighbor, but the encounter is really designed for 3 melee to stand in a trianglish formation.Let me see if I can find the numbers .. OMG (sounds like ohmaguh): 8:08'42:816 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Mahnalor for 6396 Holy damage816 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Thandrenn for 5481 Holy damage816 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Mahonri for 3800 Holy damage816 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Idravenl for 2627 Holy damage826 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Drp for 1851 Holy damage8:09'08:146 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Thandrenn for 8922 Holy damage146 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Mahnalor for 4520 Holy damage146 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Mahonri for 3824 Holy damage146 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Idravenl for 2628 Holy damage146 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Drp for 1877 Holy damagecompared to:8:09'32:543 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Mahonri for 3705 Holy damage543 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Mahnalor for 2183 Holy damage543 Maiden of Virtue's Holy Wrath hits Drp for 1830 Holy damageThis was unavoidable, she was going to thin out the melee, I'm actually suprised 2 people didn't die to it. Looked into it and saw that Draven pulled out to bandaid! Good job and great thinking!What I've heard you can do in these situations -- is still stand in a triangular formation, but the non-tanks need to stack right on top of each other so the chain sticks to them and doesn't amplify to anyone else.

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 14th, 2007, 2:04 pm

OH OH!oooooohhhhhhhI see you're sporting Despair now, Than. Sexy blade - SEXY. One .. someone might .. build a DPS spec around maybe?

Don't think of fury as dual weilding only, one really cool thing in that tree is "Improved Slam". If I ever respec DPS again, it's the route I'm likely to go (or at least try). I've watched some videos where it was used to LETHAL effect. Top DPS on Shade of Aran.Here's the theory 3.5 secs is a LONG swing time, spec. Imp. Slam and you can cut your slam down to .5 seconds. Since slam resets your swing timer, you'll have to get a mod that shows your swing, but you could (in theory) have that weapon hitting on average every 2 seconds. BIG BIG damage, but requires some timing (and obviously not usable every swing).The other route to go, obviously, would be Mortal Strike -- there's a great skill in that tree that increases overall raid DPS - Blood Frenzy. Actually this is probably the preferred route to go, from what I've seen snooping high end raiders. Fury is great for sustained DPS, Arms has more burst. .. and the healing debuff of the Mortal Strike would be godly for the Illhoof fight and others...

draven · Post by **draven** » September 14th, 2007, 2:53 pm

Mahnalor wroteWhat happened you ask? I completely hosed up my UI somehow, dragged an important attack ability off of my bar and stood there not attacking anything and scratching my head.... again only 31 intellect here....

draven's version:mahnalor scratches his headromulo scratches draven's head... with the floor i was amused anyway, thanks once again all, it was nice to get a run in. it was certainly a learning experience for me. sunday is looking ok for me, but i assume that three rogues won't work for the rest of the instance so feel free to swap me out if need be...

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 14th, 2007, 3:10 pm

Honestly - I LOVE(d) having three rogues in the raid. They're able to put out MASSIVE dps and dump aggro with ease.The only hazard I see to multiple rogues would be - the potential extra melee damage on the Astral Flares (but like Miramel said, click-click BOOM-BOOM on those with backstabs)... that and the Prince tends to be really tough on melee running in and out of his shadow novas.In regards to group makeup though, it's always beneficial to have 2 priests and a warlock, perhaps a hunter from this point on for the CC.

thandrenn · Post by **thandrenn** » September 14th, 2007, 8:57 pm

It probably also didn't help that just before Maiden socked it to me, I'd switched to Berzerker stance to hit Berzerker Rage and get a whirlwind off. Terrible timing on that part. I'm glad we did so well this time, but I definitely wasn't feeling it personally while offtanking mobs. During the Moroes fight I lost secondary aggro on him (I think). So I'm glad Mahnalor stayed alive, else it may have been quite the mess. Rage generation definitely seems to be a problem when I'm offtanking a mob. I'm open to suggestions on how to fix that. I'm firing off everything as it becomes available. I could avoid sunders, but if I'm offtanking a mob, is that really wise?

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 15th, 2007, 5:40 am

Here is the pertinent threat info from the Fortifications guide:The following chart gives detailed Innate Threat values for abilities at Level 70:Shield Slam _________________________ 307Revenge _____________________________ 200Devastate ___________________________ 101Sunder Armor ________________________ 301Heroic Strike _______________________ 196Cleave ______________________________ 130 (Split)Mocking Blow ________________________ 290Demoralizing Shout __________________ 56 (Split)Battleshout _________________________ 69 (Split)Commanding Shout ____________________ 68 (Split)Disarm_______________________________ 104Hamstring ___________________________ 181Whirlwind ____________________ 100% Damage (Unaffected by Stance Multiplier)Execute ______________________ 100% Damage (Unaffected by Stance Multiplier)Thunderclap __________________ 175% DamageSpell Reflect ________________ 100% DamagePiercing Howl and Concussion Blow do not generate Threat.Sunder Armor continues to generate the same threat even after five applications. Ability Multipliers Percent MultiplierDefensive Stance / Bear Form ________ 130% (1.3) MultiplicativeDefiance / Feral Instinct ___________ 115% (1.15) MultiplicativeFury / Battle Stance ________________ 80% (0.8) Multiplicative-----All of those moves above are additive to your actual damage. That's why Shield Slam has such a substantial threat more than Sunder, which has no damage associated with it. (307+damage >> 301 constant). (add defensive stance for a 1.3 multiplier .. and another 1.15 for your Defiance skill)Heroic Strike is 196 innate + damage, which would add up to more than the 301 sunder -- but it consumes your melee swing at a cost, that is you not only pay rage for the skill - but you get no rage from the swing. You *should* use it - but at your discretion, when you have plenty of rage.Your best use of rage with your spec is "Revenge" -- use that every time you're able to (which would only be if Moroes is hitting you and you get a block).So .. I guess your best bet on Moroes in particular would be sunder, sunder, sunder. Save some rage for your shield blocks, just in case he turns to you. Dump excess rage with Heroic Strikes when you get a good pool. That said -- throw in those fury talents to increase your attack speed / attack power, as well so you get the additional white damage threat. I'm going to post this in the Warrior Folder as well ...

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 15th, 2007, 8:51 am

I had nothing to do so I checked out stats again -- one thing that is HUGE. BIG difference in the threat you make. Hit Rating.I browsed the log and it looked like you were threatting like mad, sundering / hitting revenge when up -- however, a mighty amount of these were dodged/parried/whiffed. This I think is probably unavoidable since you're in your tanking gear ... Your DPS gear should have +hit -- it will make all the difference.A couple other things to note further on the WWS: * shield bash is virtually useless for threat, it's only value is as a spell interrupt. * Shield block as soon as you get aggro to avoid those crushes

Mahnalor · Post by **Mahnalor** » September 17th, 2007, 4:49 pm

Hey Folks,Sunday evening saw us take down Curator, Shade and the Chess Event. Though we appeared to be a little rusty going through the mobs with a death or 2 here and there... we managed to pull it together. We took a couple of shots at Ilhoof but were unseccessful... We'll get him next time

Curator - Nice going folks.. The first evocate took him under 70% which was the original goal. There were several ways we could have attacked this but decided on having Benvolo, Another and Fargol on the 10th flare with everyone else hitting on the Curator during evocate. Worked flawlessly

Loot:Gloves of the Fallen Cahmpion - DrpGarona's Signet Ring - ThandrennShade - After discussing how we had wiped in the past, we agreed on letting Shade burn all of his mana before reaching that all important 40% health mark. At 45% we stopped DPS'ing and focused on interrupts of the fireball and frostbolt only, letting the arcane missles through. He sheeped us before summoning the Elementals (bringing us to full health) and we able to successfully down the Elementals and then Shade.Loot:Rapscallion Boots - DrpPendant of the Violet Eye - FionaaChess - Pretty basic as long as you know to focus on the healers first and then take out their King.Loot:Battlescar Boots - MahnalorForestlord Striders - AkumabaraiIlhoof - tough fight.. we didnt do too bad. Great job on a solid attempt though

The biggest thing that, I believe, did us in was not attending to the Chains fast ehough. With so much going on it was tough to see when someone was chained. Sometimes we werent calling out fast enough for everyone to notice, other times it was called out quickly, but we just didnt switch fast enough. We all need to interrupt whatever move/spell/ets we are doing and use the macro to target the chains. Every second is vital to our survival! Another thing we can try next time is to have the casters stand on the border of the design on the floor to try and bunch the imps up a little better. All casters were way too far back and when an imp aggroed to them, then aoe dmg from Ilhoof couldnt reach them.Combat log can be found herePlease check out the thread for next week as things are changing up a bit...-Mahnalor

Akumabarai · Post by **Akumabarai** » September 17th, 2007, 7:27 pm

Hmm...Akumabarai - exorcismAkumabrama - ??Akumarama - Devil LamaI like! Re-roll!

Mahnalor · Post by **Mahnalor** » September 17th, 2007, 10:29 pm

Lol... Sorry... I will correct the spelling... didnt have it handy at the time

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 18th, 2007, 11:39 am

Mahnalor wroteIlhoof - tough fight.. we didnt do too bad. Great job on a solid attempt though The biggest thing that, I believe, did us in was not attending to the Chains fast ehough. With so much going on it was tough to see when someone was chained. Sometimes we werent calling out fast enough for everyone to notice, other times it was called out quickly, but we just didnt switch fast enough. We all need to interrupt whatever move/spell/ets we are doing and use the macro to target the chains. Every second is vital to our survival! Another thing we can try next time is to have the casters stand on the border of the design on the floor to try and bunch the imps up a little better. All casters were way too far back and when an imp aggroed to them, then aoe dmg from Ilhoof couldnt reach them.

The super-duper-cannot-be-stressed-higher-key to this fight is DPS those chains. That means watch Illhoof, you have him targetted already -- when you see him cast "Sacrifice" -- be ready for that quick change to the chains. Have your macro "/target demon chain" -- like Jose mentioned >> cancel any spell you're about to finish, get those chains down FAST. He'll be DPSing chains too - so any additional threat stacked onto Illhoof while the chains are up will be noticeable! Your other macro "/target terest" will get you back on the boss right away.For mages -- make sure you have your "Fire Blast" up -- for rogues, dont spam yourself out of energy -- even myself tanking save up some rage so I can add my amazing DPS to the chains. Quick cast, quick damage, quick death to chains.One thing that works really well, since Illhoof is vulnerable when Kil'rek dies -- is to have whoever is OT call out when Kil'rek is close to death -- after the NEXT sacrifice, DPS switches to Kil'rek for 2 seconds to finish him (squishysquishy) then onto Illhoof to take full advantage of his vulnerable stage. Also, it's a good idea to tank Kil'rek close to Illhoof so you get the advantage of the additional AOE spash damage from the seeds, and an easier switch to the demon chains as well. Remember - EVERYONE DPS'S THOSE CHAINS. (your extra macro "/target kil'rek").^--- this is another BIG reason you need to switch off to those demon chains immediately, the tank needs a big buffer because you're going to be unleashing a thunderstorm of damage while he's vulnerable. Optimize your DPS, full DPS the whole time -- but on the proper targets.One more thing to add to this novel and I'll shut up -- a lot of these fights are about recovery. Hope for XYZ -- but when XYP happens, be able to react. That is -- if one healer gets chained, the others have to step it up. If the warlock gets chained -- the mages have to be ready to help clean the imps -- if the offtank gets chained, the MT needs to select/taunt/concussion shot (but get back on the chains more importantly -- OT in this situation has a bigger health pool, but those chains still need to drop or Illhoof gets big heals) or something ... and .. the injustice of it all, if you lose DPS those chains go down slow -- towards the end, you might just let the chained guy die and go for broke on Illhoof.

Drumble · Post by **Drumble** » September 18th, 2007, 11:46 am

Mahnalor wroteShade - After discussing how we had wiped in the past, we agreed on letting Shade burn all of his mana before reaching that all important 40% health mark. At 45% we stopped DPS'ing and focused on interrupts of the fireball and frostbolt only, letting the arcane missles through. He sheeped us before summoning the Elementals (bringing us to full health) and we able to successfully down the Elementals and then Shade.

Maybe you meant it the other way around, but I thought I should chime in --- Arcane Missle mana is spent when he begins to cast and the elemental spells mana is spent at a successful cast, if you're burning his mana - kick AM, and let the fireball/frost bolts through. I'm *told* you can reflect these spells ... I dont have my shield out except when we're DPSing elementals (so I can shield slam since they have a threat table), those you can definately reflect (0 damage, they're immune) -- and again, it's handling the elementals while still paying attention to his normal 3 attacks that = success.

Fargol · Post by **Fargol** » September 18th, 2007, 12:22 pm

On the chains -

I can't remember if I thought of this during the raid, but just forgot to say it, or while thinking about it the next day, but... Treat the chains just like the flares on curator - quick, big dps. Have the macro ready, and be able to switch to the chains and do burst damage is just like using a astral flare macro on curator. It sounds easy enough, but the chains are the key to the fight. Any healing the person in chains gets, it heals the boss. The faster the chains are gone, the less healing the boss gets, and the faster he goes down.

I think we did a good job of calling out when kil'rek went down and bumping up the dmg then.